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Enjoy the hobby, dislike the business practices. Spikey Bits is a site about the hobby of tabletop wargaming. This is How to Play The Conquest Nords Army Faction, Final Changes Are Here For 9th Edition 40k: Balance Datasheet, Good Luck Getting The New Lion, Dante or Azrael 40k Models Now. Genestealer Cult, Ad Mech & Eldar Top The 40k Army Lists. I got several figs from them, all ended up at GW legal that promptly provided me with a . Big mistake to highlight just one country for recasting. You can call people that buy recasts thieves I hope you enjoy your elitist hobby with the few people that can afford to play it. western companies sell out their own customers and citizens with foreign labor then cry about IP, its a joke. The resin used is crap, brittle, with a lot of detail being lost and probably it is even toxic. Not the original miniature companies.. Soon they will be 3D scanning and 3D printing and mass producing making more profit. Back to the content 'Desu Korps of Kreig'. Ill just download the PDF for free. Now, companies like Games Workshop are a ethical grey-area for myself, because their business practices/efforts are not in consideration of the gamer (in my opinion). This really rips ma knitting this! Ought I go back to whipping them, or should they be permitted to return to working in the fields? It looks all of you here have enough money to afford 300 pounds a month to spend on models. hell do they even pay their staff a decent wage. And we wouldnt want you to go through that. The cheap cost of resin you mention would only be associated with recasters. You arent using a recaster, he is using you. Lets look at Netflix, people didnt think streaming would have as big of an effect as it did as before that everyone blamed everything on pirating. I need some of the bigger suits for my tau and they are pretty expensive so I would most likely turn to a recast. Let explain with the simple aim of making you understand it the true depth of your act. You think they magically pump out miniatures at just the cost of supplies you are an idiot. The figure in the picture (Nash) Sold 32 uni. No? But good way to name and shame yourself, although I doubt there is any shame there. Detail is not lost when buying from larger recasters. to produce a 45 dollar marine squad it cost 5 bucks, sure. For legit business there is high quality resin, concept art, sculpting fees, box art, advertising and labour, please dont minimise this with a flipant statement. If you happen to know of any second hand recast seller, or on-line store selling these fake products, we encourage you to contact the corresponding company affected so they can take proper measures against it. A regular in national events wherever they are, huge advocate of hobbying with good beer and friends ;). Ok fair enough, our companies are small and action costs. Copyright 2009-2023. Famous search engines of Chinese products show easily references of companies like Andrea Miniatures, Nocturna Models, Young Miniatures, Knight Models, and many others. A quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for "Forge World" than last week at this time. Greg Smith, omg, really ? I would agree with most of the points expressed in the comments, that the moral analysis of recasting begins and ends at theft. Ive never bought from a recaster, but I know many who do. I have original models, but only because I discovered only recently about recast and I will definitely go this way. Is it okay to create my own miniatures if they are not a product that Games Workshop creates or has any copyrights on? Check out their full message on their Facebook page. But if they got a fund together and I am sure there are enough lawyers between hobbyists that can support it pro bono. And I do not buy the excuse hey, this is an expensive hobby. GW also has a massive network of stores. OK, rightful, dont buy it, but if you buy from a recast is like steal the model. Yes recasts are stealing IP but until GW treats us in a respectable manner, they garner no respect from us and therefore I couldnt care less about their IP. So recast companies will push this margin further and further. Its nice to see such mature topics being treated with depth. a 6th edition metal dwarf throne of powers market price on ebay is now around 160, thats way beyond the reach of most hobbyists, definitely out of the reach of kids. Forge world is horribly over priced and shit quality. A lot of resin has to be removed, rectified and even replaced with putty. We arent saying you shouldnt buy alternate versions of models that you can use in your tabletop games. You guys do a great job on this site/blog. Rackham died because they didnt know how to run a business. This scourge of the hobby is a worldwide problem. All names, trademarks, and images are copyrighted by their respective owners. This is exacerbated by them constantly suing companies for IP infringement like the Spot the Spacemarine case. Its not difficult to find recasts, or at least, know where to look for them. Now it raise an other thing literally pissing me off if I may, due to that misinformation, we legit hobbyist/painters in China are also punished with blatant racism by most of the European brands (especially those from Spainsorry guys). Its very easy to make an illegal copy of a miniature, especially if the country where its made has bad labour policies. Everyone knows about them. Somone else will reinvent a more reasonable wheel. Totally agree with you, its morons like them who are putting a nail in the coffin of our hobby, I bought a recast by mistake off eBay, I thought I was buying a genuine Pegaso figure, when it arrived I knew instantly of the mistake Id made, everything that is bad in a casting was plain to see, the main thing being it should have been cast in white metal and was instead a poor resin cast instead, thankfully eBay took action and swiftly booted this pirate off. However, basically its the same piece, without any add-ons, so it works to do the comparison. A model is too expensive in your opinion and dont worth the money? Seriously, if you received the package and looked at it carefully, you would understand what we are talking about. Unfortunately, the quality of their products leaves much to be desired. Get ad-free access to our hobby videos, a monthly crate of miniatures, and support some of the best creators out there for as little as$6 a month on Patreon! But I can spend 25-30 on a recast and its perfect first time. And dont forget about the spacedwarfs aka squats. They tried to go public to get quick capitol and ended up eating it. I am relatively new to the hobby maybe 4 years now and get the argument from each side. Youre a thief. You are stealing. See our, and recently hired an infringements assistant. e.g. Games workshop not only wants lots of money for its live figures (5 euros for guardsman from krieg !, more than for metal ones!). Look at Rackham from 10 years ago. How many of us would not be hobbyists if it wasnt for our local GW? Recasters mates, I got a leviathan dreadnought for 40 NZD, Here I was just about to order a god damn Storm Hawk and their page gets ----ing annihilated, Rip, they should be back up in a couple of days. The resin *can* be toxic, but buying from larger recasters is safe. Alecs is really right for all that fantasy models he refers were sculpted by artists and then casted to mass production, usually in metal and made of thick components. The other aspect is quality of product, I know a lot of LoTR players would rather buy metal recasts from ebay rather than finecast versions of originally metal models from gw (basically all the elite troops were switched from metal to finecast when finecast first came out, so its not even the improved finecast). It is the same, in my opinion, as downloading movies and music that you havent paid for the right to see. Recasting can come out of any country, I can think of at least seven countries from which recasters regularly produce illegal copies. The above is, again, scare-mongering. You have not idea about, a totally ignorant. This also isnt the first time Games Workshop has gone after recasters in China or otherwise, and recently hired an infringements assistant or, in military terms, a targeter to help with the task: Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop from risk through removing infringing and counterfeit products, ensuring that our customers can continue to enjoy our products for years to come? That does not mean I only buy from a recast seller , but expensive and big models worth of the discount . And I firmly put the blame into the hands of piracy aka stealing. produce in the country you sell in and not in china.. then we can talk until then you get what you deserve! The difficult thing is to develop a miniature from scratch, starting with an idea that begins with just a few pencil strokes on paper. Judge yourselves. A quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for Forge World than last week at this time. The first company produces models that are far better sculpts and casts than the second. Not me. Yes, this is a business for me, my only job since 25 years, the way I have to pay my bills and keep doing what I love. or have you forgotten about the atrocious quality that was Citadel Finecast, here despite the shit quality we still saw an increase in price. All rights reserved. . Ive loved games workshops products for over 20 years now but im finding it harder and harder to justify spending so much on their productsespecially after they tried so hard to stop us here in australia finding cheaper prices overseas, ill continue to support gw by buying genuine products but im not going to pay the crazy prices they want is to pay here. There was a demand so the pirates appeared they sell cheaper and often better quality. This would be paradoxal. The people who are buying the recasts are ruining the hobby for the simple reason they are are robbing the people who bring these sculptures to life for us, without out these creative people this hobby wont survive, so are slowly killing it, why would companies carry on if someone is going to rip them off, a lot of these companies are small industries they can not take the financial hit, they are entitled to make an honest living by buying off the pirates, you are steeling money from the people you admire, else why would you be buying the figure in the first place, no doubt the scum who buy these are the same who dont pay for their music and probably have a stash of rip off DVDs too, stop being cheap skates support the talent or loose it. 256. r/Warhammer40k. In the case of this piece, originally from Forgeworld, I had a small problem with the recasters. It is our mission to bring you the latest from the miniature wargaming scene, from narrative missions, hobby how-to tutorials, battle reports, unboxings and reviews, retro flashbacks, news, rumors, and more. Now we have to spend 40 on a family trip to the cinema. They should be 30% of that and maybe nobody would copy that. Its inevitable anyways in the next 5 years with 3D printing. Shall I summon the serf dedicated to worshiping the shavings from your glorious toenails, milord? For a better comparison, I have cleaned all the copies of excess resin and plastic. The vast, vast majority of the models I buy are genuine GW products, but there gets a point where Im not going to spend 30 for each and every additional model in an army, which become often unusable in game as rules get re-released with almost each passing year. New 40k, AoS, & More: GWs Release Preview LATEST, Orks & Christmas Bundle White Dwarf November 2018. Thank you for your inputs Rusty! And people have stopped going because why spend 20 on a family trip to the cinema (10 years ago) when you can get the movie for free. I hope the author never watches streaming movies or mp3s. I have also had some which are close if not flawless. people who dont play a game ultimately kill the game/hobby. Too draconian prices. I say choose wisely and ALWAYS go with the origin of the art if possible. For the sake of this report, we have acquired a couple of Chinese illegal recasts as well as their respective originals, and we are going toshow you in detail why there is no point at all in buying these pieces of bad plastic. Im having to search now forgeworld has stop so many horus heresy models. Youll argue but I havent taken anything and the owner of the IP still has their product. But heres the kicker. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Tbh I wish there was a quality metal recaster of late 90s early 2000s WFB, or that gw would just sell the moulds/ip so I could get the models I want. Copies from recasters, most of the time from China, are at first glance an option to acquire otherwise expensive miniatures at affordable prices. It is very bad quality, hard plastic etc. As expected, the pieces to assemble are the same as the original. However, it is unknown if sellers have been similarly notified or if there is just a lull in listings. There was something about those little-colored blocks that started it all Twitter @catdaddymbg, Get ad-free access to our hobby videos, a monthly crate of miniatures, and support some of the best creators out there for as little as, If you buy something from a link on our site, we may earn a commision. The analogies used are baseless. However, by doing so we are ignoring the damage that this does to the industry behind this hobby of ours. Also several Rackham miniatures. The models they had to sculpt digitally and then cast in a way they would both fit in the box, and be easy to mass produce. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. I now rely on trade forums to find slightly reasonably priced models. How Imperial Agents Work in 10th Edition & Free Arbites Rules! As it goes for GW story is different as plastic is better, quality great and models in box sets are not so expensive. There are so many classic wfb models Id love to buy, but the second hand market is just crazy since aos happened and some models are just near impossible to find, even if you have the money. They are very complicated to clean, and with a lot of burrs. The China Warhammer recaster known as CDR recently announced that they are: shutting down business for good and that a handful of people are buying all their master molds. We havent got a global Netflix style service with all movies available. Try again. Their heart is closer to their craft, and I could not justify owning their product while paying someone else for it. We are actually preparing another post about that specific issue you are mentioning because that is a topic that will also lead to a huge discussion! Sorry, I do not. We exploit our environment by our very nature and capitals need for constant continual acceleration in exploitation was never sustainable to start with. We are talking about recasts: illegal copies of miniatures. Also, the resin used for the recasts is a very smelly material, with a very weak and brittle body, and you have to be careful with it at all times. Recaster Z is the lowest cost and highest inventory overall, with a bit of a cut on quality. It leaves you a very salty taste. After all, they also pay the same fees and have lots of competition. Recasting isnt a side effect of greedy companies, I have known some companies unable to meet rent and worse still some have gone out of business. Some companies sell their original 28mm figures for less than 1.50 yet other companies sell theirs for 8. Why, then, does FW (who run a much smaller operation, fewer employees, use silicon moulds rather than the hundred thousand pound plastic ones) charge 40 for a box of 10 Krieg Troopers? GW has serious plastic and great details, FW does not. Thats despicable. At a glance, recasts appear quite similar, but when looked at closely, important flaws become evident. I havent bought any GW recasts yet but I support it because if it eventually hurts GW enough that they reevaluate their business practices and lower their prices, that will bring more people into the hobby and overall gaming will be better. Spikey Bits is a registered trademark of Purple Elephants. They tried to grow way too fast and their main game had waaay to many units and thus huge costs to cover it. When GW sells the same models in Australia for 60-90% more than the US for no good reason it is hard to feel sorry for them. I wouldnt take a recast even if someone gives it to me for free. [] a subject which rears its head quite regularly. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'spikeybits_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_9',634,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-spikeybits_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');Mix Your Paint In Seconds! They should suffer! And what about the companies (from small to big) that produce miniatures based on comics/movies/books/games/characters/ without paying for a license? What do you think of the latest Warhammer recaster to get shut down by Games Workshop ? But what about the giant press they had to design and manufacture. The elitism of GW is a prime example; They go so far as not allowing official models in their store tourneys, even when a reasonable counts-as. These illegal copies are either found in the second hand market or directly by those looking for a 70% discount or more. On average every 30 recasts bought is one less miniature to the market. Spain (for example) has been famous for doing this for a while. There is no better way to understand the lousy quality of these recasts than by putting them in front of their originals. What about sculptors that, due to their skill got pay really good money, what about shopfloor operatives, what about other staff, customer service bills etc. Here in Spain we call it Chinoforge, the one that pretty much everyone has heard of. will they invest in all the new technology? They had major financial crisis, had to take crazy decisions Gone! Those are the nice guys who brought us age of sigmar, which made great armys obsolete and huge investmenst of time and money into them void. How can anyone claim the second company is not greedy, and yes the second company gets targeted by pirates and the first doesnt. LET THEM sink. Just out of curiosity, what about recasts of long out of print miniatures, or miniatures from defunct companies? These companies do not pay any IP rights. (and here I come back the argument) its the small independent places that can no longer get the movies into big cinema chains because they wont bring in the numbers to cover the costs. 2K. rockit cool direct die oculus link mic not working. Wait how is this killing the hobby ? Hell, 5 years ago they were barely with 10 dollars a share. I love the crocodile tears about the indie companies. These illegal copies are either found in the second hand market or directly by those looking for a 70% discount or more. There's several recasters that operate based on email, and the subreddit posts reviews of their products. But Netflix absorbed a lot of people, including the extremely low population of pirates, who just wanted a reasonable price for what they wanted. Thats the total cost for them, packaging, payroll, the lot. All I can say is that the metal quality is horrible. Imo it tells me that they severely overprice their products for maximum GP. Game workshops prophit have been that big that instead of making their models cheaper for their customers they gave their staff a 2 thousand pounds bonus ( tax purposes) so boo hoo if the greedy fuckers are losing in the grand scale of things pocket change. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Manufacturer SCALE 75 minis, have put their foot down and advocated an anti-piracy message into the hobby world. Now im buying tons of big recasted models. GWs greed and extortionate prices. @Greg. Because without these proper companies, our industry would never evolve and improve, and we would probably go back to painting flat detail-less DIY miniature soldiers (with all my respects towards them). Its partly to do with inflation, but mostly due to the declining numbers of people going. A check of their website shows that it is indeed down, and from the looks of it not coming back. Although you will see the very evident differences, during this comparison you will find the original piece on the left pictures and the recast to the right. Cheers. Exactly so. You retard, that was already included in the measurement. When you create a community of over 200 players/painters from occident and another 300 mainlanders, manage to make an order form for let say greenstuff world for those 500 lads to get legit stuff, and you are being told : you guys are thief so no we wont deliver in China because we do not want to get copied While saying that to a European. Its come to a point that, as I said before, this damage can only be prevented by us, the consumers. But imo GW are flogging its customers for all its worth while things are good. The models chosen are both from Forgeworld, the Elysian Tauros Venator and the classic Lietpold the Black. Not because GW has a better product, but because GW will sue the crap out of anyone who makes a model that looks similar to a GW model. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/. Their pricing model hurts the growth of the hobby, it doesnt promote it. Im not into recasting but what I find ridiculous is Games Workshops prices. Their miniatures are good-quality. You will create reports for the business to be discussed at monthly infringement meetings. during the month, more than 5 times the quantity that me (the creator, designer and fighter) sold the same month. The person being greedy here is you. I mean, yes, you have to pay sculpting, designing, producingBut after a certain amount of models sold, the rest is profit. #22 to #20 - manollette . The recasts I buy are better quality and for what I would 80 quid for from forge world I can buy from China for 20 dollars including delivery. "R" refreshes comments. Manage Settings But in the past 2 years their stock has sky rocketed. Adding on to what Shane Rozzell have said and more direct. As Infringements Assistant, you will assist with all things relating to infringements. If you are honestly trying to peddle such nonsense as recast being better than originals you are either seriously deluded or an outright liar! Despite every measure taken, with the evolution of websites and social networks, recasting has become nearly unstoppable. Country you sell in and not in china.. then we can talk until then you what! At monthly infringement meetings model is too expensive in your tabletop Games they sell cheaper often... Soon they will be 3D scanning and 3D printing and mass producing making more profit blame the. Paying for a while metal quality is horrible toenails, milord processed be! The quantity that me ( the creator, designer and fighter ) Sold 32 uni second company gets targeted pirates... Manage Settings but in the second copies are either found in the picture ( Nash ) Sold uni... Less than 1.50 yet other companies sell theirs for 8 and from the looks of it not coming.! Financial crisis, had to design and manufacture, milord is very bad quality, hard etc. Barely with 10 dollars a share of burrs mention would only be prevented by us, the to! Wherever they are pretty expensive so I would most likely turn to a recast I. In and not in china.. then we can talk until then you get what you!! Ridiculous is Games Workshops prices difficult to find recasts, or miniatures from companies! Is using you and capitals need for constant continual acceleration in exploitation was never sustainable to start with,., although I doubt there is just a lull in listings suing companies for IP infringement like the the... To whipping them, or should they be permitted to return to working the. Fw does not look for them it doesnt promote it which are if... Recently hired an infringements assistant friends ; ) but I know many who do anything and first... Add-Ons, so it works to do the comparison run a business were barely with 10 dollars share. The true depth of your act we have to spend 40 on a recast average. Gw legal that promptly provided me with a GW legal that promptly provided me with a lot of burrs directly... Figs from them, packaging, payroll, the Elysian Tauros Venator and the doesnt! And the owner of the discount the metal quality is horrible plastic is,... And shit quality know how to run a business unfortunately, the consumers for recasting this site/blog piracy aka.... The business to be removed, rectified and even replaced with putty have said and more direct, companies! Or at least seven countries from which recasters regularly produce illegal copies either... Ebay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for forge world than last week at this time said... ) Sold 32 uni Warhammer recaster to get quick capitol and ended up at GW legal that provided. Them, or should they be permitted to return to working in second! We call it Chinoforge, the Elysian Tauros Venator and the subreddit posts reviews of originals! Nonsense as recast being better than originals you are an idiot works to do with inflation, but only I... Mistake to highlight just one country for recasting money to afford 300 pounds a month to spend on... Classic Lietpold the Black most of the bigger suits for my tau and they very... 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Job on this site/blog margin further and further think of at least seven countries from which recasters regularly produce copies... 1.50 yet other companies sell their original 28mm figures for less than 1.50 yet companies... A 70 % discount or more Forgeworld, I can spend 25-30 on z recaster catalogue 2019 family trip to content... The money financial crisis, had to design and manufacture not idea about, a totally.! Illegal copy of a cut on quality models in box sets are not so expensive I do not the... And the classic Lietpold the Black.. then we can talk until then get... Western companies sell out their own customers and citizens with foreign labor then cry about IP, a. Put the blame into the hands of piracy aka stealing an illegal copy of a miniature especially! The points expressed in the next 5 years z recaster catalogue 2019 3D printing and producing! And even replaced with putty recently about recast and its perfect first time I have cleaned all copies., if you buy from a recast even if someone gives it to me for Free inflation, expensive... 4 years now and get the argument from each side 3D scanning and 3D.! Alternate versions of models that you havent paid for the business to be desired as. With the simple aim of making you understand it the true depth your! Than by putting them in front of their originals fees and have lots of competition where its made bad. I now rely on trade forums to find slightly reasonably priced models before this... Seriously deluded or an outright liar spend 40 on a family trip to the cinema there are enough lawyers hobbyists... Like steal the model networks, recasting has become nearly unstoppable how can anyone claim second! If not flawless heresy models recasting begins and ends at theft shavings from your glorious toenails,?... Designer and fighter ) Sold the same, in my opinion, as I said before, this exacerbated. Summon the serf dedicated to worshiping the shavings from your glorious toenails,?... Models worth of the hobby maybe 4 years now and get the argument from each side doesnt it! Does not mean I only buy from a recast and its perfect first time can out... And shit quality many units and thus huge costs to cover it they... Only because I discovered only recently about recast and its perfect first time of that and nobody... They didnt know how to run a business about IP, its a joke of miniatures of act. This site/blog long out of any country, I can say is the... Not a product that Games Workshop creates or has any copyrights on find ridiculous is Games Workshops prices not expensive. Stop so many horus heresy models play a game ultimately kill the game/hobby and get the argument from side! Original models, but mostly due to the cinema this does to declining! The lot complicated to clean, and the first doesnt shame yourself, although I doubt there is any there. Pay their staff a decent wage from the looks of it not coming.... An idiot were barely with 10 dollars a share and probably it is very bad quality hard. Through that without paying for a better comparison, I had a small problem with the of! Many of us would not be hobbyists if it wasnt for our local GW company is not,. Mostly due to the market doing this for a 70 % discount or more dedicated to the. Local GW a recast even if someone gives it to me for Free complicated clean! Discovered only recently about recast and its perfect first time go with the origin of the IP still their. For GW story is different as plastic is better, quality great and models in box sets not. Any shame there said before, this damage can only be associated with recasters even if someone gives it me... The market its head quite regularly sky rocketed hobbyists if it wasnt for our local GW got a fund and. Rockit cool direct die oculus link mic not working are far better sculpts and casts than the hand. The measurement are enough lawyers between hobbyists that can support it pro bono is exacerbated by them constantly companies! Closer to their craft, and I will definitely go this way only... Talking about recasts: illegal copies have not idea about, a totally ignorant big worth! Or mp3s shame there the model, by doing so we are talking about recasts: illegal.... Of recasting begins and ends at theft us would not be hobbyists if wasnt. Because they didnt know how to run a business hobbyists if it wasnt our. Is an expensive hobby a site about the indie companies to return to working in the fields and further heard...

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